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PostSubject: One hub   Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:02 pm

Because one drastic suggestion isn't enough...

I would like to make a case with not actually adding Skullport. Yeah.

This has nothing to do with Skullport itself. In fact, Skullport is probably my favorite (Possibly close to Thay) setting in the Realms. I had an amazing time back on Port of Shadows, and if Skullport does get added I'll probably spend a whole lot of time there.

But.

I don't believe the server has the population to support two hubs. Fragmenting the playerbase is something that's talked about everywhere, and that's for games with thousands and thousands of players... Let's be realistic. Even if it's amazing, City of Splendors will be lucky if it can regularly get 20 players online past the initial excitement of launch. And that's at peak times. Having two hubs will split this small group of players in a way that makes it very hard for them to interact. This means fewer RP opportunities. This means players might more often find themselves with nobody for their character to interact with, and thus, simply log out and not play. Which means they won't be there when other people log in. Find nobody to interact with. Log out. You've all played on dying servers. You know how it goes.

To give players the maximum odds of finding RP, to maximize the number of people they can interact with, and thus their investment into the server, the server should not have more then one hub.


I know some people will dislike this idea. They like Skullport (I freaking love Skullport). They want to play Drow. They want the Underdark. They want an evil town. Well... think on it. Would you rather play a drow, but only actually RP twice a week, or play a human but get RP every single day?

Server health is more important then supporting all the possible character ideas. Or so I believe.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:52 pm

at the moment there there will be only one hub, waterdeep, and it will be this way for a while I imagine until the player count had risen and devs finish making skull port, personally.

Id love skullport to to be added in later on, once adventurers from waterdeep finally managed to reach skullport via Undermoutain after braving the challenges and horrors of Undermountain! >Very Happy

yeah... very sword art online, i know XD
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:27 pm

From my understanding Skullport isn't easily accessible by the average population of Waterdeep. I would also hazard a guess that if the two were separate and not accessible teach other from the other, then most people will have characters in both areas.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Waterdeep will be starting off with only one hub, which will be the docks ward. Skullport is a little ways off. I have made a note of this post so when we go to discuss adding in Skullport (or other hubs) we will look over all the opinions and thoughts posted here. Some of the team share them.

We are enjoying your suggestions so keep them coming!
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:44 pm

while one hub is great and later maybe a second. i suggest that rp wise if it doesnt make sense for your toon to rp with whatever is normaly in the skullport then avoid doing so. do not change your toon to fit with what ever is available at the time.

also id like to make a note that if a person gets a house business or what ever is the case they get a start point in the building itself they can spawn in when starting. you only need one tho not one for each business or one for each town they are in.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:09 am

As much as one hub makes sense for a small population, that we around are aware of how things work in nwn2, we already know each other and can easily setup RP anywhere on server, it will negatively influence new players to chose another server, where they have more options, for they are not aware with nwn2 problem as we are. First impression is very important and going live with 1 option while everything else is in preparation is in my opinion bad idea. Better to serve a cooked meal than a raw one.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:49 am

There are no new players on NWN2. (Or barely any). Everyone knows what the situation is. Also, almost all MMOs make all players start in the same, one spot.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:48 am

Barely any is a huge number to nwn2 population today, anything that works against it will further more dig nwn2 into its grave. And there are also players from other servers that would like to try something new, to find themselves with no choices, with no options, to not bother to visit and give it a shot. This is not MMO, and almost all MMOs are bad. Those that are on top today usually do not have same start locations/hubs, it's one of the reasons why they are on the top. Less maps, less races, less classes, less levels = less players.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:27 am

Barely any of a small population isn't huge, it's tiny.

On the opposite, I think that players from other servers will be interested in a well-designed server that tries to be bold. You won't draw players from other servers by being generic FR server #32. There are already options for that.

As for MMOs, you can like them or not, they -are- made by professional game designers who know what they are doing. Don't split your playerbase is game design 101.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:02 am

Electrohydra wrote:
Barely any of a small population isn't huge, it's tiny.
Any population isn't same so the numbers of players matter for its growth. 5 extra player to number of 10 is 50% increase in population, while 5 extra player in 100 is 5% and not noticeable, aka tiny. Regardless of the size every player matters to grow server and community, be it new player or existing player, time will tell if they love to have options or love to not have them, not me or you.

Electrohydra wrote:
On the opposite, I think that players from other servers will be interested in a well-designed server that tries to be bold. You won't draw players from other servers by being generic FR server #32. There are already options for that.
As for MMOs, you can like them or not, they -are- made by professional game designers who know what they are doing. Don't split your playerbase is game design 101.
You made it clear that you think that its better off that way, even if you have to sacrifice Skullport that you said you love. Are players willing to sacrifice what they love, for the sake of the reasons you provided (which are true to some servers, and false to some other).
The last new non generic server lies empty to low population, if we take fact http://www.nwnlist.com/ to predict the outcome if such course is taken. I don't plan to split a playerbase, I simply also think that if we want playerbase to grow, and we only have option A to give them, then we shall have A players only. The left of the alphabet will reside elsewhere, which is the splinting of playerbase I try to avoid. I could be wrong, again, time will tell.

Making everyone be in one area so that they can quick RP cross-paths is not a solution, communication is the key. It is far more challenging and far more rewarding if its accomplished that server has many places for every kind, and that they still cross each other paths, than to pile up everyone at one place and give them no option. And with discord behind the server, players can call each other to RP, no matter where their character lives or even if they are even in the game. Maybe its generic if FR has all those places to visit and explore, but that's a good quality of FR.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:38 am

Guys keep in mind that we are in the process of making the server.
We start out with one area because 1. Less people are playing and 2. We aren't done yet. We are trying to get you guys a place to check out sooner rather than later.

So if you would rather wait 6 + months so that we have everything built all at once, let us know, and we will inform you when its fleshed out. Meanwhile, we are all putting a lot of unpaid work into something we all enjoy. Saying it isnt  big enough when we are just starting  doesn't make it build faster. One hub to start and updates to come.

Personally, I think getting players involved early to help form the server can be a very fun thing. As people play, the place expands. There will be new things coming to be, new plots and storylines developing. Constant shifts make for good stories.

Eventually, we might have skullport, more of waterdeep, the surrounding area.. people will create hubs where they wish, including random spots on a map, because it is the people that make the hub, not the hub that makes the people.
In the meantime, weare starting small. We have to start somewhere, after all.


Last edited by Fyra on Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:07 am

Quote :
The last new non generic server lies empty to low population

And the last 10 generic servers aren't on the list because they are dead. Tales of Amn, Port of Shadows, Realm of Darkness, Cormyr, etc etc. The only servers with a decent population are the long-standing ones, generic or not.
Haven (Social)
Baldur's Gate (Generic FR)
Sigil City of Doors (Non-generic)
Trinity (Basically an MMO)


It's also not true that it's players who decide where the hubs are. There are multiple requirements for some place to be a hub which players have little to no influence over.
-A hub needs to be near a spawn point.
-A hub needs to be near NPC merchants.
-A hub needs to be in an area that (Theoretically) a lot of players pass through. The two above are the main ways this happens.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:36 am

Having different opinions is good and the fundamental system Waterdeep is created on. The discussion here has been good so far and will be taken into account when we discuss hubs and what exactly we want to launch with. We like to remain adaptable.

Please continue the discussion and constructively voicing your own sides/opinons, but make sure it stays on topic and in good faith.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:14 pm

personally id just stick to one hub for now in an area or near one that has the rest spot and merchants tho myself id rather the merchants be out of talking range as they tend to mess up rp going on.

as you go on and grow more then add the other hub and so on. until then 1 is enough.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:51 pm

I would only suggest adding Skullport as an unlockable second hub. For example for higher olevel toons that have completed a quest to reach it or spent those rep points to gain access. Then put things there for higher level toons. But make it limited hub. Your basic shops, guild housing, and main focus being the main hub. The second hub only for specialthings not available to new toons (rods of resurrection or stronger enchanted items maybe). The only real advantage is to kind of split toons based on level power. Lower level in the start area and those "end game" toons in a second. By having all the shops and needed things in your main hub people have to go back there, but have a desire to reach the new hub for special items or high olevel rp.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:03 pm

@jalmynar

Have to take into account underdark characters, skullport would be their starting area.
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PostSubject: Re: One hub   Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:25 pm

Only if UD characters are allowed. Which imo they shouldn't be. They can not rp on the surface, nor do low lever quests or areas found there. They have to have thier own areas for that. If the server has say 50 active players and of that only 5 play ud exclusive toons you still have to dedicate time to make maps, quests, shops, ect for them. Then there is the dm support for ud players with events and so on. The other 45 players lose out on the time that could be spent enriching thier play experience. A low level human isn't going to quest in the depths of the ud. With lower populations servers should focus on what is the best playing experience for the most people instead of catering to select player groups. There are a huge number of playable options without adding drow as pcs.

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