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PostSubject: crafting suggestion   Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:02 pm

I would like to suggest

1. when smithing if an extra item is added say something magical it would add an enchant to the item. this is an example it doesnt have to be used or can be altered.
3 iron ingots + longsword mold + silver powder = a longsword with enchantment against werewolves. and so on. this will allow for a specialization of a non magic user with lore or equivilant knowledge of magic but not able to cast to do small enchants via item. i would limit it to just that small enchants nothing major unless magic is used.

2. ingots of all metals allowed in game to be able to be made. while mining you can get ore.
example mine 5 ore of iron with a forge and a mold you can make iron ingot. this can be done with all metals.

3. ingots. allowing ingots to be made out of ore is great for rp of trade merchant houses. so also in turn with the idea of 5 gold silver platinum ore making an ingot also allow the melting of gold coin and so on to be used to make an ingot same for silver if you use a coin system in game if not then a trade of gold ingots or coins for ingots of silver platinum and so on.

i can look up the proper dnd amount if needed but i think it was based off 1 pound = x amount of coins. using that lore you can set a recipe up for conversion of ingots to coins and coins to ingots. for metal you are not using coins for you can take x amount of gold coins to equal the amount needed to purchase an ingot.

this also serves to boost rp as well as offer more options of things that can be done later on tho i would suggest standardizing the ingot rp weight somewhere like 100 pounds each having them all the same weight helps make things less confusing when used for other things.

with the trade system you can open up investments and so forth into trade routes and even use them to buy things from trade guilds instead of normal currency. you can also make it able to be done with banking system and gold.

coins

Most coins in Faerûn worked off of the silver and gold standard, with
copper pieces (cp) being worth 1/100th of a gold piece (gp) and
Silver pieces (sp) being worth 1/10 of a GP.
Electrum coins were worth 50 cp (1/2 gp), and
platinum coins were worth 500cp (5gp) 1,000cp (10gp)

Each coin was approximately 30.6 mm in diameter and weighed approximately 9 grams each (or 50 to
one pound).

excahnge rates
cp 100 = 10sp
sp 20 = 2ep
ep 2 = 1gp
gp5 = 1pp

Simplified: 1000cp = 100sp = 20ep = 10gp = 1pp

D&D 3rd Ed.[2]
100 cp = 10 sp = 1 gp = 1/10 pp
Electrum pieces (ep) are not mentioned in the core rules, and common electrum pieces are not
mentioned in the FRCS.

just what i had pulled out to save searching for myself. please feel free to double check those they did come from a couple different books.

i propose this simply because i normaly play at least one trade merchant/crafter/enchanter and should i play one again and start a business or guild these would allow for proper rp of trade between houses and merchants. and if coin is needed a standard weight and amount to be paid for them or made by ore it self and gives you a return as well when needed gold instead of ingot. it will add deeper rp immersion to trade guilds houses and whatever else comes of it. and allow for purchase from said houses and guilds by means not of coin. they can inturn collect and store these ingots in bank vault / storage and use them at their leisure to fund projects buildings and what have you.

each guild/house will have their own mark on the ingot for rp use in game. but otherwise all ingots will be same.

lastly for now
3. enchants should be able to be overwritten by the higher enchant of same type.

longsword with +1 fire then enchanted with +2 fire = longsword with +2 fire. this should be done all way to max limit you set.

this will allow for more rp as well as cut the need to constantly buy new swords just to get the next enchant of same type. and it seems close to pnp style.

the enchants however can not be taken off once added. tho this i would think a master enchanter could do but is not likely to do so unless it is his own work.
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:16 pm

How about the +1 to +3 be non magical (ie, craftsmanship) and +4 and above will be magical(ie, enchanted).
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:18 pm

Would also be nice to have some mundane smithing "enchantments" such as massive crits or bonus damage (physical), as well other than basic +1-3 smithed "enchantments". Would be nice to have 1 mold + basic materials + bonus materials = weapon/armour with different properties.

An additional idea, to allow enchanters some assistance is to make Forged Items have one shot properties. So once forged, you'd need an enchanter to override the "enchantment" rather than it be improved by being "enchanted" by a smith. So smiths would have to reforge or forge anew to make a better item. It could also lead to recycling items, "Have that Mithril Scale mail that no one wears? then put it in the forge to be broken down for parts."

Also... Electrum pieces was 2nd ed, but dropped from 3rd ed. I think, but the 100cp = 10 sp = 1gp = 1/10 pp is Standard for Faerun 3.5ed
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:41 pm

not bad ideas tho smiths is why i threw in the magical item used when smithing to add a low enchant to the item. yes molds are or should be a must but with those id make them reuseable since a real mold is reuseable. that cuts down on crap in inventory and storage as well. make them stackable tho so if we have more than one they are stacked saves space and allows us to have more than one incase we take on an apprentice. i do miss that aspect of magic. tho for most it was a quick give me and no work put in lol is why i never had one last past a week before ditching the toon or them finding another teacher.

as for smith enchant non magical. i would limit this to low level only and that be based of what the max allowed will be set at. +1 +2 is low enough for a smith to add a magical item to the process and it work. +3 maybe if the mage enchanter can go above +5 to +6 or more even. if not then +2 is high enough for non magic smith enchant. any thing more would likely mess up or explode. causing something bad to happen. or should in any case. i do like the ideas but i have no clue how far to take them. i just know what i would consider playing mages and rangers and such.

more or less i am looking at standardizing much of the stuff either in weight for ingots or cost or both. by standardizing it should help a little with balance as far as economy goes. basic longsword x amount gold . longsword smith enchant x amount of gold x amount of magical item and so on. i do this simply because i know how much gold can be got with a mage with a hopping server and how much with a slow one. i am also fully aware of the greed factor. by standarizing it this should help with the greed factor and push things to go more with the one who has a high reputation being able to make more gold than say a apprentice but still keep it semi fair at least is what i think.

im also aware of the i paid more so i charge more factor. alot of times this is total b.s. in my case and few others it was true. i pay x amount for mats gems and so on i charge depending 10 to 100 more gold than i pay that is fair since i have to be able to buy more goods. prices get outrageous quick on things and rarity. so im looking to avoid that or seeing it avoided this go around. simply cause it totally pissed me off to see a gem go for 50,000 gold and it was barely worth 2000 all because it was used in multiple recipes and dropped rarely for some lol i had alot of them.

things can be figured out alot more clearly once it is playable and we get a feel for how things work and new systems are learned.

most did not understand by using default items in game it threw any balancing attempt off cause you couldnt change prices on default stuff. at least i never could figure out how to change it and make it stick with out making a customize version of mundane everything. which alot of things should be stackable to save on space in stores and so on. maybe you want 1 sword they have a stack of 100 click buy then how many you want. that would be a nice thing to do and see.

any armor or weapon of same stack together armor and weapon of different type or enchant stack in seperate stack and so on. you can sell it all at once or one at a time depending upon what max gold is set at if they do set such. i would personaly say no to that but that is just me i guess.
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:43 pm

I hear this talk of 50,000 gold gem as being a casual occurrence! I mean how many of them can really exist? Crafting and Currency have to go hand and hand so the economy doesn't get inflated.
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:29 pm

There are alot of good suggestions in here. Wanted to let you know we are reading them over and taking them into consideration. Keep the ideas flowing!
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:15 pm

Please don't hyper extend the economy for crafting.
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:34 pm

is why i wanted all items used customized with a set price you can only get so much for them from shops so it seems more real they have to make profits too. and with set prices it should even out the player side crafting if you get rid of appraisal skill crap i hated that. it was abused out the bunghole.

with a set price player crafters regardless of alighnment and so forth should have near enough the same prices. the one a player goes to is based on reputation or basicaly the one they more comfortable with. evil wont go to a paladin so nor should and evil go to a good alighned crafter.

and lets face it the city workers wont go to the lessed rep toon nor would the higher ups. poor folks would likely go to lesser rep toon.

higher reputations can afford a small increase to price. and honestly should since their time is more valuable and so forth. bit it should still be a reasonable price if the player is actually fair at the pricing.
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:42 pm

Also there should competition from the NPC store owners too.
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:43 pm

How's this for a suggestion on allowing npc competition, give the Merchants variable Appraise scores. At the start of each reset the merchants get a variable appraise score from low to high, to sorta reflect the changing market and allow some Craft level items to maybe be bought cheaper than it would be to craft them (merchants getting rid of a surplus?)
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:26 am

NPC stores should not be anywhere near competitive.

1. NPC interactions don't create RP.
2. NPCs don't get any satisfaction from being a successful crafter/merchant.
3. NPCs already have a HUUUUGE advantage of being available 24/7, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year.
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:25 am

huh?
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:09 pm

nah npc's shouldnt be competitive they are really there just to provide used space and to help low levels who cant afford higher shops. they can be set via toolset to sell the items and so on at 100% which should be the cost set on the item itself and also be set to buy items at 50% from players. what this translates into is simple if the item is reuseable in this case a dagger then it sells for 100 gold they dont need it any more then they sell it back to a merchant they get 50 gold.

one time use items do not count potions heal kits and so on you pay normal price then use them they are gone. now if you dont use them and sell them back you get 50% of normal cost. this works best when merchants are set to infinite gold.

npc's only provide any real interaction to players when possessed by dm's so no to be competitive. make it so things are flat price no appraisal on them that is one way to screw up a set pricing system. i have higher appraise than you i get cheaper price to buy and more gold to sell throwing prices way off. if you must have appraise then not useable on merchant at all. find a quest that needs it or players who dont mind that.

merchants should always have set prices appraisal doesnt work on them or shouldnt anyways. i cant go out and say hey that car is only worth 500 you selling it for 50000 ill give you 600 see doesnt work. same with grocery store and so on. oh you got a beer it cost 1.00 sorry i dont like it to me its only worth .25 you know what happens next you get kicked out.

so i am against the appraisel on npc's period and it should not work on them either. like i said set prices are best way to go to even semi get close to anything resembeling a balance.
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:01 pm

Quote :
merchants should always have set prices appraisal doesnt work on them or shouldnt anyways. i cant go out and say hey that car is only worth 500 you selling it for 50000 ill give you 600 see doesnt work. same with grocery store and so on. oh you got a beer it cost 1.00 sorry i dont like it to me its only worth .25 you know what happens next you get kicked out.

Actually, while it's true that in modern, western society haggling is not something you see often, it was the norm in pre-modern societies, and is still the norm in many less developed regions of the world to this day. Nothing has a listed price : The price you pay is whatever buyer and seller agree to. Some people are much better then others at obtaining a good price from others, and this very real skill is represented by Appraise. (Which, admittedly, should probably be called something else.)

Also it's very funny that you bring up cars, because it's one of the few industries where haggling is still a thing. If you pay the listed price on a car, you got ripped off. Dealers put their prices a little higher because they expect people to negotiate a lower price then listed. Housing is the same. Basically anything with very high costs. But in other societies, you did that with -everything-.
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PostSubject: Re: crafting suggestion   Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:23 pm

yes haggling over price was a thing here too back in the really old days. it is how the term buck skin got associated with the dollar and so on. lol i disagree with you on the car thing tho that is purely out of greed same with houses too they rarely haggle on price to anything that would amount to fair. lol

we still tho it isnt really common have a barter system. you have something i want i have something you want regardless of actual cost its a fair trade. but again no money is transferred as in money it self just items.

i really hate the appraisal skill its a waste of points that could go else where. so i often have low to no appraise but i stick to my price regardless i do it simply cause of high intel. lol so no his prices dont budge what so ever until he sees fit to recalculate them in order to compete more or account for his time and knowledge so forth and so on. i do try to keep it fair which puts me at a disadvantage already throw in appraisal and i get boned. with a set price on all items used this will give all merchants a base price to go off of until you get into the details of each items cost used to make something. that is where we screwed up by not using a system simular to what i mentioned.

folks came in with high appraisal and jacked prices on everything up so miners and so forth jacked theirs up and here i am offering fair prices at most 20 gold more than items really costs.
and there ya have it lol folks that is how you make gold and it not really be noticeable my one and only trick.

if it cost 20 gold sell it for 30 gold 10 gold profit maybe at most cost 20 sell it for 40 which is double the gold and flatly as high as anything should go with out any reputation added in or anything like that.

a miner mines a gem its worth 20 gold they sell for 25-30 gold i buy it for 25-30 i have to sell it for 40-50 gold to make anything off it to keep the cycle going.

for example with blues reputation of highmage archwizard master smith master enchanter where folks would charge 20k gold for an item with my rep as it was folks should have came throwing gold in higher amounts at me im talking 40k and better for the same item. as it would have more prestige coming from a lord as well as archmage and so forth it would be garenteed of the highest quality and with his slight ocd perfect.

so what i suggest is a lot easier. a set price for us to base prices off of and the npc's to have prices nearly matching our own from then on folks can do what they want with however they want to rp it.

this is why it will take time to work things out in such a manner. just and example below.

ex: long sword 100 gold. make a long sword 3ingots of metal. each ingot costs 50 gold. then the long sword in npc shop well they lost money. and because they lost money they get the business a smith should get at his fair price of 175-200 gold for a long sword beings the cost of ingots is 50 each thats 150 gold for long sword then add in the labor. now this is where i toss in the unthought of things : material 150 labor 25-50 this labor field also includes the unknowns for instance partial cost of mold or storage which if storage is high then the prices will be higher.
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